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Welcome to the Thrive Marriage Lab with Restory Counseling, where we help you explore the why behind the what. Because guess what? We believe that your marriage is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be explored and enjoyed. We believe that the more you explore and know your story, the deeper your marriage connection will be. This podcast is now the audio version of our new YouTube channel, Thrive Marriage Lab.

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where each week you can expect us to help you cultivate connection and belonging without the fixing and tips and common things you often hear in the marriage space. So find us on YouTube or listen in.

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So in a previous video, I talked about the four different levels of conflict that we talk about here in the thrive marriage lab. Right now in this video, I want to talk about four different postures that are very common between couples and, and, and you probably can identify with one of these along the way and maybe you major in one and minor in another, or you know all four of them. I don't know. I know that I fit into each of these categories, uh, multiple times in a conversation with my wife. So,

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My hope is to give you some idea of what this actually might look like in your communication with your spouse. Welcome to the Thrive Marriage Lab. My name is Chris Bruno and I'm a licensed professional counselor and the founder of Restorey Counseling. Together with my wife Beth and our colleague Tracy Johnson, we post videos to help couples know the why behind the what. Because we believe that the more that you explore and know your story,

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the deeper your marriage connection will be. So there's four different postures that, that we find often in marriage communication struggles. And we tell, we call them postures because it's, it's not about what you say. It's more of like a posture that you have with your body. And maybe it's literally a posture that you have with your body. Maybe it's more just like an internal posture, but your spouse is going to feel it. So the first posture,

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is that you have your fists up. And this means that you are feeling aggressive, you are feeling combative, you're ready to go after it, and you need to make sure that the conversation is gonna finish. Somebody's gonna win. That's the thing, someone is gonna win. I am coming to this conversation for a fight. I am ready to throw some punches, I am ready to take some punches, and along the way, somebody's gonna get knocked out.

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And at the end of it, someone's going to win, right? You might've heard the phrase, like, we're going to have a long and drawn out knockout conversation in order to, to see who comes out on top. You guys, I can guarantee that this is not a fun way to communicate. And if you've been married for any amount of time, you probably have a sense of these kinds of conflicts, that there's some kind of like, I have got to protect myself and I've got to throw some punches.

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so that I don't lose this fight. That's one of the postures. And you can feel, even when you put your fists up like this, like I am, I'm feeling the energy coming. I'm feeling a sense of like, I've got to win. I've got to stand my ground. And usually it has something to do with how you engaged. Again, the story that is in the background, the why behind the what, is there's some kind of way of engaging that you learned.

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that when you kind of power up and you find that sense of like strength and power, that's going to actually help you survive. Here's the thing. I don't want to survive my wife. I don't want her to have to survive me. And when I, when I come with my fists up, I'm actually inviting her to the level of energy, my light conflict that that is going to have to be survivable. And we don't want that in our marriages, do we? So that is one of the postures. Your fists are up.

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Another of the postures is that your palms are out. You're like, stop and get away and stand back. And even as I do this physically, that posture, it's like, I want to separate myself from you. I'm not going to like take you on like I do with the fist, but I'm going to hold you at bay. There was something about you that I need for you to get away or for me to get away from you. And this is like that, that external pushing away.

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both the fists up and the push and the palms out, these are kind of external ways that you aggressively push someone away. And sometimes the palms out kind of thing is like, I just need to get a break from you, I need to go away. And there can be some goodness to that, which I will talk about in another video, but if it's like this aggressive kind of pushing, then it's verbal.

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Sometimes it can be physical, but it's certainly emotional. Like I am not interested in being in relationship with you. I am hereby shutting down. I am pushing you away and I am getting away from you again, fists up, palms out. Those are the first two. And those have some level of aggression to them, don't they? And it's like I said, that external expression,

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whether or not it's physical, it's some kind of external verbalization of, I need to fight you or I need to get away from you. The other two are more internal. The other two have more to do with like this internal posture and it may have something to do with like a physical posture, but it's far more of an internal posture. So one of them is where you basically are like,

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And instead of like pushing away with the palms out, this is like crossing your arms and like, I am going to like physically protect myself. I am going to close myself down. I am going to just kind of still be here, but I'm just gonna like fold my arms. And this person's shift is not towards more words or more violent things that they're gonna say or more aggressive things they're gonna say. They're just gonna...

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shut it off. I'm not going to let you attack me. I'm not going to let you be with me. I'm not going to let you impact me at all. I'm just going to close my arms and shut you out. And I, I imagine that some of you have that kind of posture that has worked. And again, the story from the, you know, previous relationships that you've had, whether they're previous romantic relationships or in your earlier upbringing years, that kind of posture probably helped you.

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It helps you survive some really challenging and difficult things. But here in your marriage, this kind of shutdown, this internal posture of like, I am not going to be in relationship with you. I am not interested in you. I am disgusted by you. I am judging you, whatever that is. That is that internal shift. That is going to keep you from the actual relationship that you want with your spouse. So that is the third posture. First, fists up, second palms out.

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Third is the arms crossed and then the fourth is also similar to the arms crossed, but it takes it one step further. And that is literally where I'm going to turn away where I'm going to turn away from you. Meaning I am literally turning my back. Sometimes it's literal physical, but at least emotional. I am turning my back on you and I am no longer going to give you my face. You, my spouse are no longer deserving of me even giving you

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my face, I'm going to turn away from you guys. When, when research is done around the communication styles of people, there is something to be said about still having those first three that, you know, there's some aggression, maybe there's a pushing away or, or maybe there's a, you know, the arms crossed, there's still some engagement with you as my spouse. I'm still acknowledging that you exist and that you're a person and, and that I'm a person and we're going to be in some kind of like,

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as hard as it might be. But this final one, this turning away, is actually the most detrimental to a marriage. It is the most challenging for married couples because once I no longer give you my face, there's nothing else that can be done here. There's no more relational connection that can occur. And that shutdown can be devastating to people. It can be so hard for us to have a sense of like,

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When am I actually going to get your face again? When am I actually going to be in, really? When are we going to talk? When are we going to finish this? When are we going to conclude? And until that person gives that, you know, turns back, turns their chair or at least their internal emotional self back to the spouse, nothing is going to happen. There's not going to be any repair. There's not going to be any good communication happening. So when you think through your typical kind of conflict

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the ways that you engage, whether it's literally physically, or whether it's that internal emotional shift inside of you, that posture that you take inside of you, which one do you fall into? And which one does your spouse fall into? And here's the thing, I would invite you to not judge that. I would invite you instead to be curious about that, because the folding of the arms or the turning away, whichever one of these postures you take, that's the what. There's a why.

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There is a why behind the what there's far more going on. There is a story that is activated that maybe you're conscious of, maybe you're not conscious of, but there is, there is a why behind the what, this posture is a way that you have learned through the course of your life, through all of those many moments and many experiences that you've had across your lifetime. This posture has helped you. This posture

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has helped you survive and navigate some probably pretty challenging things along the way. And so instead of judging it, we like you always or I, you know, I always do this. I'm such a jerk. Why am I like this? Instead of having that kind of condemnation or judgment, what would it be like for you to instead be curious about it and be curious about it together, to be curious about it together in the sense of like, hey, let's talk about talking tonight.

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you know, well, it's got a date. Let's talk about talking. Here's how we typically kind of circle the drain. Here are some things that we end up doing in, you know, the more difficult conversations. What's going on for you there? Where did you first do that? What, where did that come from? Can you remember a time in your childhood in your early adulthood when, when you needed to do that because it was actually a really challenging situation and you had no other resources as a kid to be able to make it through. Let's talk about that.

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I think that when we can begin to explore and know our story and the story of our spouse from that kind of perspective, from that kind of curiosity, we actually can develop some compassion and empathy muscles to go like, oh, wait a minute, I see you turning away from me. I see your, your fists are starting to go up. I know now that we've crossed some hurt line. I know that we've kind of gone into a different realm because something has been activated in you.

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and I want to tend to you and care for you rather than be curious about what's going on for you rather than actually kind of duke it out and make sure that we finish this conversation. So take each of those postures and have a conversation with your spouse. Which one do you typically fall into? Like I said, you might major in one and minor in the other, I don't know. Most of us actually visit all four of these categories pretty frequently.

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And it's just a matter of talking about it with your spouse that will bring these things to the surface and give you a conversation about how you talk. That's an important thing. I hope that's been helpful. I will see you in the next video.

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If you like this, there's more where that came from. Go to Thrive Marriage Lab on YouTube to check out all of the marriage resources we have for you. We are so committed to helping you develop a deeper and more connected relationship.

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that we have created 12 free curated date guides to walk you through one year of good dates that we believe take you beyond your average date night to the kind of connection you really want. So head over to restory.life/thrive-dates or just look in the show notes to subscribe to get those for free in your inbox for one year.

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And if you're curious about us, you can find us over at Restory.life, where we look forward to hearing about how your marriage continues to grow. See you same time, same place next week.